After almost a decade of complaints from the LGBT community about the connection between the LAPD and the Boy Scouts of America, the Los Angeles Police Commission Tuesday indicated they are moving forward with plans to start a youth program of their own.
The LAPD’s Explorers Program has been run by the Learning for Life (LFL) organization, which community activists and three gay police commissioners have repeatedly proven has direct ties with the antigay Boys Scouts of America (BSA). In fact, even the first line of Wikipedia (last updated May 26) on Exploring says, Exploring is a worksite-based program of Learning for Life, a subsidiary of the Boy Scouts of America, for young men and women who are 14 through 20 years old.
Contracting with businesses or organizations that discriminate based on sexual orientation – as the private, religious BSA has a US Supreme Court-granted right to do – violates city law.
Former LA City Attorney Rocky Delgadillo issued an opinion that waffled on the LFL-BSA connection, but suggested the LA Police Commission should err on the side of doing what’s right. Newly elected LA City Attorney Carmen Trutanich, however, not only declared that a connection existed but said:
“LFL provided us with what it contends is the LA Scouts’ policy on non-discrimination. The document is entitled ‘Sexual Advocacy or Behavior: Zero Tolerance Statement’…..
This LA Scouts document falls well short of a policy of non-discrimination…..and does not comply with the City’s law. If LAFD or LAPD desire to continue to contract out the administration of their youth development programs and the LA Scouts desire to be a contractor or subcontractor, then the LA Scouts should adopt a non-discrimination policy that adheres to the City’s law on non-discrimination.”
At the outset of Tuesday’s meeting, Commission President John Mack noted that the issue was “a very, very significant one that has been with us for several years.” Mack and openly gay Commissioner Rob Saltzman talked about how the Explorers Program itself was a “very valuable service” and both pressed the LFL hard and directly about their connections to the BSA.
After praising the program’s services, Salzman said:
“The issue today is how that program will be administered going forward – by the Police Department or an outside group, and if an outside group – they must be in full compliance with city law.”
He suggested that if the LAPD contracted with LFL to run the Explorers Program, LFl, the local BSA – and the national Boy Scouts of America would have to change their policies to comport with the nondiscrimination policies of the city. If a contractor is not in compliance, he asked, how could the LAPD continue the contract?
Attorney Robert Scoular, who serves as a pro bono attorney for LFL, declared that LFL had already severed ties with BSA and promised to comply with city laws if the city attorney would just provide them with the proper language and a contract, not a memorandum of understanding.
Scoular said:
“Those changes can and will be made by Learning for Life.”
And he went on to promise that BSA would not be involved in the “delivery of the program.”
Mack pressed him hard and directly on whether there was still any connection with BSA – saying he met with LFL’s executive director who was then “on the payroll of the Boy Scouts.”
Mack got a laugh saying he was “trying to be as diplomatic as possible, though it ain’t easy” – and then referred to a Gladys Knight song: “neither one of us wants to be the first one to say goodbye.”
This was a very welcome change from the position Mack took during the Nov. 20, 2007 commission meeting when – despite emotional goodbyes and awarding the Police Commission Distinguished Service Medal to retiring openly gay commissioner Shelley Freeman who raised the LFL-BSA issue again – Mack and his colleagues punted.
In a quick interview during a break at Tuesday’s meeting, Mack told me they were waiting for a definitive decision and guidance from the city attorney – which they now have. But for LGBT people in the audience who have long admired Mack, that 2007 farewell to Freeman and punting of the issue was a let down, even an insult. How could this hero of the civil rights movement not get the discrimination-connection. When I asked Mack about this, he didn’t seem to know how to respond and abruptly stopped the interview to re-start the meeting.
But despite earlier concerns, confidence was restored as Mack presided over a meeting with commissioners who were clearly fed up – finally – with the flimflam of the LFL/BSA.
Saltzman – the openly gay, married commissioner who looks like a distinguished USC legal academic – emerged as a kind of Rachel Maddow-style Geek Superhero.
He raised a brochure which he said had come attached with a LFL letter last week – and quipping that the new LAPD facility now had computers – he said he’d googled the address on the brochure and the address on the letter and they both were both BSA-related. And, he said, he’d been through all LFL’s 990s for the last year available – 2007.
Saltzman said:
“We’ve been told that these changes have been made. But there’s no demonstration of that.”
It was an unexpected “gotcha” moment that raised eyebrows and created a new LGBT hero.
Several people spoke during the public comment period, including Lorri Jean, CEO of the L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center, and Paul Waters, Executive Director of Los Angeles/Valley Pride.
Waters said:
“But Learning for Life is nothing but the Boy Scouts in disguise – or in this context, the Boy Scouts in drag. A subsidiary shell organization created in 1991, then and now under the full control of the Boy Scouts from when the heats gets too hot – and the Boy Scouts have need for a shill, ready and waiting, to be the recipient – of the programs and the assest in danger of being lost – if retained within the prejudicial and discriminatory organization that IS the Boy Scouts.
The LAPD Cadet program being a prime example of this — deceptively shuttled off to Learning for Life when the heat started getting too hot.”
Lorri Jean said:
The L.A. Board of Fire Commissioners has already voted to disaffiliate with Learning for Life. So, too, must this Commission vote to sever all ties with that Boy Scouts affiliate. This result has the full support of Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa.
Complete disassociation from Learning for Life would be required even if there were not an alternative to their youth program. Fortunately, the LAPD is prepared to administer its own impressive youth program; one without any hint of anti-gay discrimination or association with anti-gay discriminators. There can be no price put on the value of a non-discriminatory program.”
Ah, but here may be a rub.
During his presentation, Assistant Chief Paysinger revealed that the LAPD had been preparing for this transition and presented an outline for the “future of LAPD youth programs.”
At no time, however, did he mention the word “gay” or “LGBT,” or if or how there would be recruitment of and outreach to LGBT youth and potential scout leaders, or how openly LGBT youth and scout masters would be integrated into the new plan. Nor did he indicate that there are openly gay people currently in the program who might be able to offer counsel – a glaring omission since he stressed the importance of getting a “buy-in” from youth currently in the Explorers Program.
During his comments, LFL’s David Tomblin said LFL in fact does have openly LGBT youth. But given their track record of obfuscation, it is unclear if there are any open LGBTs youths and scouts in the program – something Paysinger should have known and reported since this brouhaha is about LGBT people, not just an unlawful contract.
Paysinger later told me that he is not concerned about homophobia within the ranks or within the program because the he doesn’t care about race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation – nondiscrimination principles are taught in the Explorer Academy. He apparently is not anticipating any problems after openly gay youth and scouts are integrated into the new program.
There are a couple of red flags for me here.
Paysinger spent a lot of time talking about marketing and re-branding the Explorer Program as if he was doing a sales pitch on behalf of the company apparently already hired to do what he was laying out. It’s the same company, he said, that did the successful LAPD recruitment ads. First, that sounds like a no-bid contract arrangement that should draw some attention.
But as some LGBT community leaders may remember, that is the same company that introduced their new recruitment advertising and marketing plan at the Chief’s LGBT Community Forum a few years ago – and forgot to include any representation of the LGBT community at all!
That was rectified after much complaining. But for all the talk about marketing and re-branding the new LAPD youth program – once again there was no mention of reaching out to the LGBT community – confusing since this is the community most directly impacted by the change.
Additionally, this is the same Paysinger who defiantly put up a huge Explorer banner on Parker Center to aggressively promote recruitment and support for the Learning for Life program – at the same time the Police Commission was last questioning the connection to the BSA and thus, the validity of the program. Additionally, he directly and defied openly gay Police Commissioner Shelley Freeman’s order to take the banner down and only did so when ordered by Commissioner John Mack.
Paysinger referenced that aggressive recruitment during the commission hearing Tuesday – talking about the 1,000 new recruits. “These young people came and they came by the legions,” Paysinger said. That he recruited those “legions” of young people under a banner he knew was emblematic of discrimination of LGBT people and defiance of an openly gay police commissioner – and talked about it Tuesday with pride – is a cause for concern if Paysinger is the man overseeing the transition and implementation of any new program that has to do with LGBT people.
It should also raise a red flag with advisors to Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who is in the process of considering a replacement for Bratton. The LA Times says that Paysinger is among the top four LAPD insiders being considered for the job. Of the other three – Assistant Chiefs Jim McDonnell and Sharon Papa and Deputy Chief Charlie Beck, only McDonnell (pictured here, center) has consistently been involved with the LGBT community, from LAPD forums and LGBT events such as the annual Pride events.
Matt Szabo, Villaraigosa’s openly gay Deputy Chief of Staff, says of the lack of gays on the advisory board:
“There is absolutely no question that the interests and concerns of the LGBT community will be well-represented as the mayor chooses his nominee for police chief.”
But by whom on that advisory board? As wonderful and as legendary as Connie Rice is as a longtime and highly regarded civil rights activist who constantly stands up for us – does she know the LGBT community’s long history with the LAPD, Learning for Life, and the Boy Scouts, for instance, to be able to ask nuanced questions and give cultural marrow-bone advice?
Meanwhile, Shelley Freeman (pictured here with Chief Bratton), who now lives and works in Florida, said this about the long awaited severance of LAPD ties with BSA:
At long last, the Explorer Program is out of the closet. I wouldn’t expect anything else from the LA Police Commission than what they did today – which is to put an end to the LAPD’s association with this bigoted organization.
I implore the commission to see its action through to the end and I expect the Police Commission to be vigilant in its oversight of policy – not just in the manner it is intended but in practice.”
The LA Police Commission instructed Paysinger to return in two weeks with a detailed plan for the separation and new LAPD youth program.




great article…typo in the Waters’ comment (bu, instead of but). You continue to go where mainstream media just won’t go and we’re a better community with your insight. Thanks so much.
Thanks. Much appreciated.
Unfortunately, we are STILL not automatically considered a legitimate minority and we need to remain vigilant.
When I confronted a Boy Scout funds solicitor at a local supermarket in Scottsdale, AZ, recently, the adult gentleman present tried to say that only a few parts of the Boy Scouts were owned by the Mormons. Isn’t the connection between Boy Scouts and the Mormon Prop 8 campaign quite clear?
I don’t think I can actually agree with this decision. The case in question where the BSA discriminated was not against memberships but against a particular scout leader. Its a little disingenuous to overlook all the good that the BSA has done for youth over the years simply because it decided not to allow gay scout masters. Of course it is the right of the LAPD and CA as a whole to decide, but here in Ohio working with youth is frowned upon if you are gay. Maybe its because parents don’t want their kids to have to deal with that part of the culture until they are old enough to actually understand it. Being gay is one thing. Being gay in public around children is COMPLETELY different.
Hi galefan2004 -
Well, a couple of things.
As I explained in an earlier post – http://www.lgbtpov.com/2009/10/will-the-la-police-commission-fail-lgbt-youth-again/ -
this is way more than just one case against one gay scout leader. It’s been several cases, in fact, including the one that made it to the US Supreme Court where the court ruled that the BSA had a right to discriminate against gays because they are a private, religious organization. THAT violates LA City Law – which is what a lot of this conflict was about.
Secondly – while the scouts may do good work, teaching them that gays are immoral is not one of them. There are plenty of other youth groups that welcome LGBT youth and scouts – such as the Girl Scouts and the Boys & Girls Clubs.
In my book, discrimination is not a good or moral value to uphold or teach – and that’s what the BSA does. And, they have a right to do it privately, But when they violate city and state laws and are taking my tax dollars to do it – NO WAY.
[...] The LAPD says goodbye to the Boy Scouts because of their anti-gay rules. (I was a Boy Scout and learning to tie all the knots has come in [...]
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More zealotry flushes a GREAT program. LAPD gets what it deserves for its refusal to stand up to for differing points of view.
I think its a shame that all those kids in LA will miss out on the Explorers program which has been successful since 1991. Some one should give those quoted individuals a post advisors program guide from LFL to browse. Sex has no place in the mission of a career awarness and education program; regardless of preferences. Exploring is a great way for professionals from all spectrums of the work force (in this case law enforcement) to positivley impact the communities in which they operate effectively building a foundation for a better future or all parties participating; the youth gaining valuable insight, knowledge and empowerment; the adults positivly impacting the future generation as well as re-examining their own positions and professions. Its really quite a refreshing way to spend any dollars in a time when our education systems in most major cities are decrepit.
[...] Los Angeles Police Commission said they will sever ties with the Learning for Life organization that has run [...]
Paul,
Did you not read the article?
Gay kids and professionals know they are not welcome. The only kids and professionals that benefit from the Explorer program are straight, hardly a refreshing way for the government to spend public money.
If a Scout or Scouter belongs to a religion that doesn’t have an issue with gays, why is BSA telling them that their beliefs are wrong?
If BSA would actually follow the Scout Oath and Law and leave issues of sex and sexual orientation up to an individual’s family and faith, they wouldn’t be in this mess. Rather conservative elements in the organization have decided to force their views on others to the detriment of the organization.
Eric,
I think you are missing the point.
There is no place for sex in scouting or any of its affiliate programs. Period.
Gay or straight, reverent or not, name one organization who can serve youth as well as the BSA. Exploring is not scouting, rather it is a career awarness and exposure program. No where in that mission is sex ever a topic for discussion, interpretation, or opinions.
I have a question or two or three =) for you,
1)If part of your argument is that LFL was a front for the BSa then how would those gay post advisors or youth even know that there was potential for discrimination against them by joing the program…
2) Did you know that the only requirment for participation of adults is a background check to prevent sexual predators from interacting with youth.
3) did you know the only requirment of participation for youth is based on age and enrollment in a school within the locality of the program?
4)Can you name one program that can serve youth as well as LFL/BSA?
5) Did you know that this is a volunteer run program? Adminstartive duties are handled by LFL? Would you not allow a fortune 500 CEO to speak with youth because his/her company had a sexual preference/discrimination lawsuit in its past?
I have personally been to Exploring programs throughout the country that were lead by openly gay leaders. If you were just the average participant at the program you never would have known this to be true, because it is not a subject that is in line with the goal of Exploring. And even if you had a suspicion, who cares? The point is to help the kids learn about job possibilities, salaries, career paths, etc.
I think that this attack on the BSA is rediculous. Scouting teaches boys and young men practical skills.
Exploring teaches both young men and women practical skills correlated to success in business and a career.
I think it is selfish for gays straights, or purple people from pluto to take that opportunity away from youth. For ten dollars a kid from the roughest part of town can break out of the trend; can be a member of a program that looks great on a resume and better the individual youth in countless ways. You tell me is it worth losing? Is there an alternative? Or is the LAPD going to create a program that is exactly the same just not associated with the resources of the BSA? I highly doubt that. In fact it will pale in comparison. Who will their top youth compete against? the LAPD effectivley cut itself off from a really cool national program.
Paul – let me try to answer some of your questions.
One of the key points here is that sexual orientation and sex and NOT the same thing. I AM gay – it’s my orientation, an essential part of my being and my identity. I will be gay whether I ever have sex or not.
The Boys and Girls Clubs do not discriminate, nor does the Girl Scouts. I think they would argue that they provide just as good programs as does the BSA.
Most LGBT people are very well aware of the BSA’s antigay attitudes – they are very explicit about it when they talk about “moral character.” And remember, the BSA went to the US Supreme Court to argue that they are a private religious organization and therefore should be ALLOWED to discriminate. The court agreed and almost everyone knows that.
A background check is standard operating procedure for anyone having extensive dealings with youth – as it should be. Did YOU know that most pedophiles are straight? Check this out – http://gayteens.about.com/b/2009/07/21/the-myth-of-the-gay-pedophile.htm
Everyone involved with this argument agrees that the Explorer Scouts program was very good. The problem was that LFL had ample opportunity – years – to disassociate from the proudly discriminatory BSA – which they didn’t do – and therefore they were in violation of LA city law.
And yes – the LAPD is in the process of creating their own superb youth program and they strongly anticipate having youth groups from around the state and the country wanting to play THEM!
I just interviewed the new LAPD chief yesterday and he is very keen on making their program work – and having it serve as a pathway to a career in law enforcement – for ALL people interested.
If the BSA wants to continue to discriminate – that is their right. It is also the right of the LAPD not to renew its contract with BSA’s front group, LFL. And I would argue our youth will be better served for it because they will not only learn “explorer” skills but a skill BSA doesn’t teach: respect for the dignity of all human beings.
So your effecitvly arguing that everyone would be better off if they learned “respect for the dignity of all human beings”… ” How could one have respect for others if they do not have respect for themselves? When was the last time you were in the ghetto where kids are afraid to have self respect based on virtues you or I would hold as moral and true because it will get them shot, like honesty. Would you argue that a child who has dignity for all human life raised in the ghetto is better off than a child in a similiar scenario who knows how to write a resume but may not have been programmed to accept alternative lifestyles? Is it ok with the LGBT community if people didn’t know about alternative lifestyles correlated to sexual preference or are these people also bigots in their ignorance? Let me finish by asking you this, if your house was on fire, and your gay partner was being suffocated and already unconcious within the building in question, would you care if the responding officer was open to gay marriage or equal rights, or would it hold more weight for you if they were trained to respond to the accident in the correct manner? (BTW all procedural training for first responders does not include discrening the victims sexual preference)
!THIS IS A CRYING SHAME! Have anyone of the critics of Exploring been to a national competition? I highly doubt it. Exploring & LFL serve youth. Period.